This week, CJ’s in conversation with writer/director Paul Taylor and producer Alex Megaro of Driftwood, which won the Grand Jury Prize for Best Narrative at Slamdance this year. Also, Bernard chimes in to share his thoughts on this weekend’s gigantic release, Batman v Superman. We all know by now that the Zack Snyder-directed superhero mash-up hasn’t been received well by critics, but Bernard breaks down exactly what goes wrong in this woefully misguided missed opportunity of a blockbuster.

Topics

• Indie Pick (1:32)
• Batman v Superman (5:02)
• Paul Taylor and Alex Megaro talk Driftwood (18:46)

Articles Referenced

• Driftwood Review
• Spinning Plates Review
• Batman v Superman Review

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Like Paul Bunyan, Bigfoot, and Pecos Bill, the heroes and villains of Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice are more mythical than super, writing a new page in American folklore as they split the skies with each thunderous blow. Director Zack Snyder‘s approach to DC’s now timeless characters is apt—few modern myths stand taller than Batman and Superman—but, as usual, the Watchmen and Man of Steel director gets lost in the grandeur, delivering a solemn, overly studied, slog of a movie.

The super-brawl promised in the movie’s title is as spectacular as anyone could have dreamed, but before we reach the main event melee, there’s a two-hour-long preliminary bout that sees Snyder pitted in a sweaty grappling match against complex themes of ideology and theology. Spoiler: he loses. Consequently, we lose too. By the time Batman and Superman (and a few surprise guests) get all bashy-bashy, stabby-stabby, we’re bored to tears by Snyder’s glorified lecture on man v god.

Henry Cavill returns as alien do-gooder Superman, who, at the story’s outset, is the subject of worldwide debate. His city-levelling battle with General Zod (Michael Shannon) at the end of Man of Steel cost the lives of thousands, calling into question whether his actions were justified and whether his presence on earth is a benefit or detriment to the future and well-being of mankind. Some see him as a messiah; others, an omnipotent pariah who could reduce our planet to dust should we refuse to bow down.

One man who has no plans of kneeling to “the Superman” is billionaire brooder Bruce Wayne (Ben Affleck). One of the buildings decimated by Superman and Zod was Wayne Enterprises, which toppled right in front of Bruce’s eyes, hundreds of his employees’ lives blinked out in what some would call “collateral damage.” It’s a tragedy that haunts Bruce almost as much as the memory of losing his parents to a mugger in that classic alleyway scene we all know so well from countless movie, comic book, and TV iterations of the Batman origin story (which Snyder mercifully zips through in the opening credits). The story picks up 18 months later, with the Bat keeping a watchful eye on the bulletproof Kryptonian as he patrols the skies, above all men and above the law.

Bruce and the rest of Superman’s detractors are given more fuel to feed their fire when more lives are lost during a rescue of his beloved Lois Lane (Amy Adams). A reactionary congressional hearing is held, calling for him to appear in court to consider the consequences and ethicality of his actions. As fear and paranoia surrounding the continue to spread, tech genius Lex Luthor (Jesse Eisenberg) offers a solution to the world’s Superman problem in the form of Kryptonite weaponry. All he needs is to get his hands on a chunk of the extraterrestrial rock, but his political maneuverings to do so are blocked by Senator June Finch (Holly Hunter, unexpectedly one of the movie’s strongest assets). As Superman is increasingly viewed as more of a threat than a savior, however, Luthor’s scheme begins to fall more easily into place.

For what seems like ages, Snyder and writers David S. Goyer and Chris Terrio bat around big ideas like the ever-evolving nature of homeland security and, most predominantly, the fraught relationship between man and god. The movie’s got the “god” part down: Batman, Superman, and the debuting Wonder Woman (Gal Gadot, a delightfully entertaining ass-kicker) come across as all-powerful goliaths, striking the most epic superhero poses this critic has ever seen (Snyder’s signature slo-mo, while as excessively implemented as ever, lends itself to characters of this magnitude).

As for the “man” half of the “man v god” thing, the movie drops the ball with an earth-shattering thud. The story’s obsessed with outlining the principles and lofty motivations of its heroes and villains without giving us a sense of what they are like as people. We’re so drowned in doom and gloom and planet-sized moral quandaries that we have no real grasp on what these heroes are actually fighting for. Clark’s got Lois and his mother Martha (a returning Diane Lane), and Bruce has got his butler Alfred (Jeremy Irons) and the memory of his parents, but all of these side characters are presented more as plot devices and pawns rather than living, breathing, relatable people. Snyder paints in such broad strokes that the nuances and details of our world are lost in the monstrous swirl of dark, folkloric imagery and ham-fisted dialogue.

When Batman and Superman finally fight, it’s so brutal and well-staged and irresistibly geeky that, while it doesn’t make up for the disastrous bulk of the movie that preceded it, it at least wakes us up from our stupor. Things get even better when Wonder Woman arrives to help them fight the Big Bad that eventually arrives to crash the party, and I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t enjoying the hell out of the climactic battle. If there’s a criticism, it’s that much of the dichotomous intrigue of Batman and Superman’s comic book confrontations is lost. When the two have battled on the page, the hook is that Superman should be able to crush Batman, but the fact that Bruce Wayne is not a good person (and is willing to cheat to win) gives him an unexpected edge. In the movie, Bruce is indeed a bad person; problem is, Clark doesn’t seem to be one either. He acts decidedly un-heroic on several occasions, flexing his super powers with a smug smirk on his face as he tosses Bats around like a ragdoll.

The character work is flawed all around, but this incarnation of Lex Luthor is the most confusing of the bunch. He’s more of a lunatic manchild cut from the same cloth as classic Bat-villain The Riddler than the imposing intellectual bully we’ve seen in the past. Is that a good thing? Sometimes. Eisenberg puts on a good, charismatic performance, and his wiry frame is an interesting visual juxtaposition to the heroes’ bulky physiques. But a part of me would rather have a supervillain who’s more menacing and less of a mischievous meddler.

Batman v Superman is a bonafide letdown, but the blame doesn’t rest on the shoulders of the actors. Everyone’s game and looks great, especially Cavill and Affleck, who are both black belts in the art of chin-jutting, come-at-me-bro machismo. Adams, Lane, and Irons are invaluable as they try valiantly to ground the story in some sense of realism. But alas, the script doesn’t give them enough room to work (the movie’s 153 minutes, for goodness sake). If the aim was to offer a more mature, “serious” superhero experience than Marvel Studios’ Avengers movies, Snyder and his team overachieved; this is as cynical, depressing, and emotionally hollow a blockbuster as we’ve seen in some time, a filmic representation of the adulthood misery that’s pushed the wonder of childhood fantasies out of the hearts of crotchety old-timers everywhere. Surely we were meant to have more fun than this.

Superman Lives is one of the most bizarre and criticized unmade films of all-time, and now thanks to Jon Schnepp we have new insights into the failed project, along with an interesting look in at the equally bizarre nature of the mainstream Hollywood filmmaking machine. The Death of “Superman Lives”: What Happened? begins with Schnepp surveying fans at Comic-Con about the idea of a Tim Burton directed, Nicolas Cage starring Superman movie, showing them the leaked picture of Cage (with flowing hair) wearing an early test version of the new suit. Reactions are mixed.

Schnepp then dives into the history of the film, beginning with producer Jon Peters’ acquisition of the film rights and hiring of Kevin Smith as screenwriter. It’s clear Peters and Smith were never on the same page, as most of their recollections of early meetings never match up. Smith claims Peters wanted a modern, heavily misguided take on the iconic superhero in which he doesn’t fly and doesn’t don his famous outfit and cape; Peters immediately denies this when Schnepp asks him about it later. Peters represents the creatively bankrupt big Hollywood producer, and Smith represents the true fan fighting for the creative integrity of Superman (at least in Smith’s eyes). Their vision is clearly a mess, with the only thing they seem to agree on being that Tim Burton should direct. And so Burton comes on board, but he hates the script, so Smith gets replaced by Batman Returns script doctor Wesley Strick.

This is where things really get rolling, with plenty of interesting developments. Nicolas Cage gets involved in the production, and after getting reminded of his incredible performances in films like Adaptation and Wild at Heart, he seems perfect for the vulnerable, outsider Superman that Burton wants to portray. Schnepp also lets viewers see and hear from the incredible, versatile team of visual artists and art directors Burton put together for the project, a group reminiscent of the team Alejandro Jodorowsky put together for his failed adaptation of the Frank Herbert novel Dune (profiled in last year’s Jodorowsky’s Dune). But the studio keeps reigning the production in, tightening the budget and creative control, forcing Burton to fire Strick and bring on screenwriter Dan Gilroy (writer/director of Nightcrawler). Eventually it’s revealed that what really killed Superman Lives wasn’t fan outrage over the leaked photo of Cage, Jon Peters’ constant interference, or anything from Burton or his team; it was because of the spectacular string of big budget box office failures (like Batman and Robin) Warner Brothers put out in the late ‘90s that made the studio nervous of making another dud.

The revealing interviews Schnepp gets for his film makes it an enjoyable and informative watch throughout, but the film also does a great job highlighting the humor that comes out of the behind the scenes tensions. Schenpp also edited the film, and he shows a masterful hand at putting together differing accounts of what was going on behind the scenes to play up the comedy of the situation. Most of that comes into play in the early scenes with Peters and Smith. One of the funniest moments in the film sees Smith talk about how Peters seemingly fell into a producing career after working as a hairdresser for Barbra Streisand, followed by Peters defensively talking about how people don’t take him seriously because he started out as Barbra’s hairdresser.

But what’s most impressive is how Schnepp turns you around one of the most massively criticized attempts at a blockbuster ever. The film seems like a joke in Peters and Smith’s hands full of both misguided ideas (from Peters) and unneeded fan service (from Smith), but once Burton comes on to the project, the film surprisingly appears to come to life under his direction. And that leads into the other great victory of this documentary: it shows the real issues with today’s superhero movies. It’s not so much that they’re oversaturating the market, but that something like a Marvel cinematic universe is too safe, to the point where studios are dropping a new superhero into their template of choice. Superman Lives could have been a disaster if it had actually been made, but it definitely would’ve been a strange and unique take on an iconic superhero, and that’s something we don’t really get anymore.

The Death of “Superman Lives”: What Happened? is currently out on Blu-Ray, DVD and VOD.

The myth—or rather, the idea—of Robin Hood has resonated across the world since stories of him first emerged in the mid-17th century. His schtick is sublime in its simplicity: he robs from the rich, gives to the poor and has a lot of fun doing it. He’s a rabble-rouser, a deadly archer, a protector of justice and a smooth-talking ladies’ man. An all-around good dude.  His brand of clean-cut heroism has gone out of fashion in recent times, however; these days, stand-up heroes like Robin Hood are treated like a joke. It’s a crying shame.

1938’s terrific, jaunty The Adventures of Robin Hood, starring an improbably chipper Errol Flynn, is playing on July 4th as a part of TIFF’s “Dreaming in Technicolor” film showcase. It’s a treasure that all should see, though it’s the kind of lighthearted hero’s tale mainstream audiences have sadly lost an appetite for.

We’ve grown too cynical and in love with mayhem and revisionism to take seriously a man in green tights swinging on vines and letting out a big “A-HA!” as he pushes his fists into his hips and puffs out his chest. Romantic swashbuckling is difficult, I’m afraid, for the average 2015 moviegoer to take un-ironically. Ridley Scott‘s 2010 Robin Hood ran in the opposite direction of the Flynn version, painting a dreary picture of 13th-century England for Russel Crowe‘s “Robin Longstride” to brood around in because, these days, gloom is all the rage.

Our generation’s Robin Hood, arguably, is the Dark Knight himself. Batman is the perfect example of the kind of hero people crave today: psychologically damaged, shrouded in darkness, defined by tragedy and loss. No superhero, not even the bright and shiny Marvel ones, can contend with his superpower-less, black-on-black hipness. His look has evolved over the years, getting scarier and scarier with each reboot of the movie franchise, to the point where the latest version of the Bat, played by Ben Affleck in the upcoming Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, straight-up looks like evil incarnate. We’ve come a long way from Robin of Loxley and his funny little hat.

In The Adventures of Robin Hood, directed by Michael Curtiz (and, to a lesser extent, William Keighley), we see Flynn’s Robin stride into the malevolent Prince John’s massive banquet hall, plopping down a (very illegally) poached royal deer in front of the interim king. Surrounded by an army of armed men, Robin accuses John of treason and vows to avenge the missing King Richard and fight for the poor. What courage! What honor! For centuries, this was the epitome of heroism.

Batman treats evil-doers a bit differently, to put it mildly. He’s an intimidator who lurks in the shadows and strikes fear in his enemies from behind a mask, a symbol that hides his true identity (as a billionaire, another subversion of the Robin Hood myth). He’ll do anything to gain an advantage (short of killing, of course). In a classic comic book version of the Batman/Superman confrontation (found in Jeph Loeb’s Hush), Bruce Wayne defines his true nature. “If Clark wanted to,” he says internally as Superman pulls his punches, “he could squish me into the cement.” He suddenly smashes Superman in the face with a ring made of kryptonite. But Superman’s got an even bigger weakness than the glowing green stone, as Bruce explains. “Deep down, Clark’s essentially a good person. And deep down, I am not.”

Where’d all the good guys go? A remnant of Robin Hood’s youthful spirit does exist prominently in Batman lore. His famous sidekick, Robin, was clearly inspired by Robin Hood. In fact, “The Boy Wonder” was a direct homage to Errol Flynn. Robin is the last glimmer of innocence in Bruce Wayne’s world, a playful young ally designed to bring a bit of levity to the Batman comic book series.

The character’s gruesome death is a darkly poetic sign of the times, now more than ever.

Jason Todd, the second to take up the “Robin” identity, is brutally beaten with a crowbar in front of his own mother (who’s just sold him out), his medieval yellow cape and green boots soaking in a puddle of his own blood. Mother and son are restrained, a ticking time bomb plunked beside them. Jason throws himself onto the bomb to shield his mom, despite her betrayal, in a final act of heroism. With Robin’s bright light snuffed out, only darkness remains for the mourning “caped crusader.” Written by Jim Starlin, the story was called “A Death in the Family.”

It’s an apt parable for what’s happened, culturally, to exuberant, grinning movie heroes like Flynn’s Robin Hood. Jason Todd was murdered by The Joker, a demented cackler with a sick sense of humor who applauds and giggles at the sight of brutality and pain. Sound like anyone you know? If Robin represents Robin Hood’s chivalric valor, the Joker symbolizes modern audience’s regurgitation of such classical ideals. He’s more interested in Batman; they’re a reflection of one another, both messed-up social outliers with a penchant for violence. “I don’t wanna kill you,” Joker tells Batman in Christopher Nolan‘s The Dark Knight. “What would I do without you?”

As moviegoers, we owe it to ourselves to not let pure, lighthearted heroics fall into extinction at the cinema. The reason Zack Snyder‘s The Man of Steel sucked was that it wasn’t any goddamn fun. It was a de-saturated, over-produced drag obsessed with mining darkness out of a character who should inspire wonder and make kids cheer. Batman v Superman looks to offer more of the same, depressing superhero action.

Get excited about The Adventures of Robin Hood instead. It’s everything The Man of Steel isn’t: fun, full of laughter, bursting with life (in Glorious Technicolor) and punctuated by thrilling, plain-spoken action sequences. If we would just let go of our snarky aversion to unclouded optimism every once in a while, perhaps Robin could live once again.

Taking a behind-the-scenes look at one of the most extraordinary human interest stories in recent memory, Dana Nachman’s Batkid Begins is about the importance of volunteerism and the awe-inspiring results of millions of strangers coming together to make a kid’s dream come true. On November 15th, 2013, thousands of people gathered in the streets of San Francisco and the world watched as 5-year-old Miles Scott, still recovering from leukemia, lived out his dream of fighting crime as Batkid alongside his hero, Batman.

It was interactive theater on a grand scale, and Nachman’s documentary follows the countless craftsmen, actors, city workers and volunteers who worked tireless hours to make Miles’ day. Organizing the event was Patricia Wilson, executive director of Make-A-Wish Greater Bay Area, and playing the role of the villainous Penguin was visual effects artist Mike Jutan. I spoke to Nachman, Wilson and Jutan in the heart of San Francisco about the film and the spirit of kindness and playfulness they created on that memorable afternoon.

Batkid Begins is in theaters now.

What would you say is the biggest misconception about Batkid day?
Patricia: I’ve heard people try to be naysayers and say, “Couldn’t these resources be used for other kids? Why is this kid so special?” My favorite statistic is, 100% of children who qualify for Make-A-Wish receive a wish. We didn’t ask for 25,000 people to come out; we were doing our usual thing. Naysayers: go see the film, because you’ll see what happened. You can’t be a cynic. If you find something wrong with it, how ’bout you advocate for what you love? How about you go out and do something and volunteer, because that was the spirit of the day.

Mike: As Taylor Swift says: “Haters gonna hate.”

Dana: Any interview where you can quote Taylor Swift is a good interview. One of the things I’d say is a misconception about the film is that I worry people think it’s really sad. It’s super not-sad! Miles is in remission and living a great life. I felt like it was important that we get that out of the way in the first nine minutes of the film so that after that it’s pure happiness.

Was the comic-book aesthetic idea there from the start?
Dana: Yes. It was there in my mind, and I found an animator in Rob Simmons, who’s an amazing animator. He did it for “way too indie” rates! [laughs] It’s always hard to get people to work on your film, but he got what this was for.

I think another thing people should know is that the movie isn’t all about Miles.
Dana: Right. It’s about the people who came together for Miles. The volunteers and the people on the streets who skipped out on work to be there for this kid. Everybody heard the 140-character version of this story. The film really goes behind the scenes and shows what made the event so touching.

Mike: For me, one of the most interesting parts of the movie is, on the day, the people were the filmmakers. Everyone brought their phones, and Twitter, Instagram and Facebook was how you saw it play out. There was traditional media there as well, of course. But people weren’t really processing what the event really meant that day. They were just there crying and cheering in their costumes and being a part of the community of it. With the movie, I think we can spread a deeper message of what we think San Francisco said to the whole world. This is what’s possible when people work together. Everyone there was a volunteer. It’s amazing that those people felt a sense of community this little boy inspired. Our goal was to make Miles smile. No matter how big things got, it was his wish day and he needed to have a good time. If the Penguin made him cry, I failed.

Dana: Another thing that was cool was that there wasn’t a bit of politics to it. It had nothing to do with anything controversial. It was just society coming together.

Patricia: The Scott family is back on their farm and they aren’t doing any media requests. Miles was invited to the State of the Union by a democrat and a republican because they thought, if he could make the Internet nice, he could make Washington D.C. nice! I was charmed by the fact that they wanted Batkid to save Washington D.C.. [laughs]

I like how much time the film takes to show the hard work of all the volunteer craftsmen and artists.
Mike: Like the opera people, who made the costumes during their busiest season. They pulled all-nighters to get the costumes going. It was amazing. Everyone put in as much of themselves as they can.

Patricia: That’s true of every wish we do. Our chapter will do 370-390 wishes this year alone. The heroes of this film are all the volunteers who were happy to help. We had school teachers take their classes out of school that day. They got a chance to witness everything happen first-hand.

Dana: That was a goal of the film, to not rehash the day but show how it came to be. We wanted to show all the hard work and dedication it took, and they were going to work that hard whether 25,000 people showed up or not.

I’ve lived in the Bay Area my whole life, and I’m also a lifelong Batman fan. Gotham has never been associated with cities that look like ours. It’s always Chicago or New York or something. For this to come together and happen here…
Dana: …is your lifelong dream. [laughs]

It totally is! San Francisco doesn’t look like Gotham at all, but it was Gotham for one day. Thanks for making that happen, at least for me!
Dana: Make-A-Wish, man!

Patricia: My friend called me the week of, before the wish happened. She said, “Right now, go to Google and type in Batman.” You know what came up? Batkid. I think we broke something.

Mike: I feel like Batkid has added to Batman folklore. I really do! He has a Wikipedia page and everything. It’s crazy.

There’s a lot of great stuff happening for our city lately, and we’ve always been prideful, but this is something else.
Patricia: We had the same setup as the World Series parade. As many people showed up for Batkid. The difference is, on Batkid day, everybody picked up their trash, so the city didn’t have to clean up like they usually do. Workers said it was unlike any celebration they’d had before. It was just a love-fest! It was magical.

This was Miles’ wish. He was the catalyst for this thing; it was his dream. You guys took it to another level. The crazy thing is, once it happened, it was so clear that this was something everybody needed at the time. People were yearning for something like this to happen.

Mike: I saw an article in the New York Times saying our culture is “awe-deprived.” It’s an interesting and terrifying concept to me. I feel like the people who came together and worked on this have that childlike sensibility. I’m still a kid inside, excited about everything. That’s the kind of spirit we brought out, I think.

Patricia: I’ve been contacted by a number of people who have questioned their own careers. As a result of meeting the people who worked on the day, they’ve decided they want to do something they love.

Mike: We broke capitalism, too.

Patricia: That’s pretty remarkable, right? People are saying they want to be volunteers.

Dana: The people in the film are fulfilled people because they’re all living out their dreams in general. They spread their dreams to other people.

Being an adult can suck sometimes. It was nice to play for a day.
Mike: I just saw Inside Out, and the last line in the credits says, “This movie is dedicated to our children. Please don’t grow up.” That’s the spirit.

Patricia, I can’t imagine anyone having a more rewarding job than you.
Patricia: I have to fund-raise and finance and all that stuff. But what makes it fulfilling is to work with kids and their parents and make something incredible happen. After this day, me and Mike both independently Googled PTSD. [laughs] The pressure was on. It was beautiful, but we were worried about things going wrong. We were doing it for Miles, and I’m humbled that this could balloon into something so big.

Mike: It was such an incredible thing to be a part of, and now having the movie to remember it is so cool. This movie is a way to keep that spirit going because it shows not just what we did, but why we did it and why it matters. The spectacle of the day got people to look; the movie will get people to listen.

My favorite moment in the film was when the kid who owned the Batkid costume says he’s happy Miles has the costume now. I lost it.
Dana: That was one of those late adds. We were in the throes of editing, and I didn’t even want to tell my editor I was going to shoot it.

Mike: “I’m just happy he has it.” I was just like, “WAAAAAAH!” What a great kid!

What was the scariest moment of the day?
Mike: For me, there was one very clear moment when I was frightened to death. I was in the Bentley, and I had Lou Seal “tied up.” Uber had dropped me off about an hour before. I walked past the whole crowd and waved at people. There were about 1,000 people there. We come out of the garage an hour later, and there are 10,000 people there. I’m stunned! Amazingly, in the crowd, my girlfriend is right on the corner, blowing me kisses. I freaked out, but I calmed down when I saw her. The night before, she said, “It doesn’t matter how many people are coming. You would have done the exact same thing if 50 people came. The goal is to show Miles a good time.

Patricia: I can think of five things. One was leading up to it, being on social media and seeing people organizing caravans and flying to San Francisco from far away. Second was getting a text from a friend at 5 am saying the media were already setting up; the wish wasn’t starting until 10. The third was coming out of the garage at Union Square. Thousands of people and news helicopters were there. Fourth was the long bus ride we had between the ballpark and Civic Center. We got emotional on the bus and saw the President, mention us in his first Vine ever. I started to lose it. Lastly, the thing that resonates was waking up the next morning and shaking, vacillating between shaking and crying. I was so emotional trying to understand what just happened. The phone rang, and it was CNN. They said, “Are you there?” I said, “No. No, I’m not.”

Dana, what’s next for you as a filmmaker?
Dana: Actually, we’re shooting today, though I’m not there! The feature I’m doing is called Pick of the Litter, about puppies who were born two-and-a-half weeks ago. It’s about their quest to becoming seeing guide dogs for the blind. It’s a two-and-a-half-year process to become the best guide dogs of all time, and most don’t make it because it’s so rigorous. They have to learn to obey 100% of the time until the moment when they intelligently disobey. They’re the most amazing dogs.

Any words of encouragement for other indie filmmakers out there?
Dana: I would just say, do whatever it takes to make your first film. Put it on your credit cards like I did. You need something to show in order to get funders down the road. It’s such a beautiful profession because you get to meet so many wonderful people. It’s really a gift of a career. Don’t take no for an answer. It’s hard, but whenever I get sad about making movies, my husband says, “If it were easy, everybody would do it.” There are so many upsides that you have to learn how to get rejected a lot. That’s part of it. Persevere.

In reaction to a leak to file-sharing sites on Thursday, Warner Bros. released the official HD version of the Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice trailer Friday afternoon.

Though it frankly isn’t the most exciting thing in the world (it’s pretty dour, actually), the trailer drops some significant clues regarding the film’s central conflict, which is likely ignited by the cataclysmic battle that capped off Man of Steel. The world seems divided on the hot topic of the red and blue alien from Krypton, some christening him a savior, others renouncing him as an untrustworthy totalitarian.

In a sonic collage of Superman-related sound bytes, we hear the voices of real-life figures outlining the implications of the hero’s existence, Neil Degrasse Tyson being the most notable of all. “We’re talking about an alien whose very existence challenges our own sense of priority in the universe.”

Though Clark probably isn’t comfortable atop the messianic pedestal the world’s put him on, he nonetheless appears to have most of the world groveling at his feet. There are clearly dissenters, though, as is evidenced by the shot of a statue of Superman at the beginning of the trailer, the words “FALSE GOD” painted across his chest by non-believers.

The biggest non-believer of them all, it seems, is Bruce Wayne, played by Ben Affleck. We get a good look of Bat-fleck in the Bat-suit (glowing eyes and all) near the end of the trailer as he stares up defiantly at Henry Cavill‘s Superman, hovering overhead in the middle of a lightning storm. It all looks epic and badass as hell, but you know what? The Man of Steel trailer looked awesome, too. So…maybe we should take a cue from Larry David and curb our enthusiasm.

In the comics, the reason Batman would often best Superman when they did battle pertained to their moral make-up: Clark Kent is a good person; Bruce Wayne is not. Clark, knowing he could crush Bruce with his pinky, holds back his punches, while Ol’ Bruce-y is never above cheating (i.e. shoving Kryptonite shanks into Clark’s ribcage) to gain an advantage. It’ll be interesting (nerve-racking) to see how director Zack Snyder plays with this dynamic. “Tell me, do you bleed?” Batman threatens near the trailer’s end. “You will,” he promises. Sounds good to me.

We’ve still seen little to nothing of the rest of the super-powered and super-evil ensemble cast, including Gal Gadot‘s Wonder Woman, Jason Momoa‘s Aquaman, Ezra Miller‘s Flash, Ray Fisher‘s Cyborg, and Jesse Eisenberg‘s Lex Luthor, though I’m willing to bet we’ll get a good look at them in the coming months. Until then, we’ll just have to wait until the film arrives on March 25th, 2016 to see how in the hell they’re going to cram introductions to all these gigantic heroes in one itty bitty movie. Check out the trailer below.